Sintel, the Durian Open Movie Project » Blog Archive » Opportunity: stereoscopic Sintel

    

Opportunity: stereoscopic Sintel

on October 7th, 2010, by Ton

Although Sintel has been released, we will still continue to work on re-rendering the film in 4k format (3840 pixels wide, for digital projection or screens). This is being sponsored by the Amsterdam Cinegrid consortium, and will be available (tentatively) end of 2010.
As last and ultimate target we also would love to be able to deliver the film in stereoscopic format. We believe that an open and free accessible ‘stereo 3d’ film has a great potential to become a worldwide test and evaluation standard. It’s currently even open to deliver this in stereo-4k!

Blender Institute intends to produce this with the highest quality possible, which means that all shots in the film will be carefully (re)designed by an experienced stereographer assisted by experienced Blender artists. We also want to spend considerable time on optimizing and implementing an efficient stereographic editing workflow in Blender (camera tools, integrated render, compositing).

You can e-mail Ton Roosendaal to get further information about this sponsoring opportunity.

-Ton-

70 Responses to “Opportunity: stereoscopic Sintel”

  1. Pablo Vazquez Says:

    Come on Sponsors, get a free as in freedom stereo movie to test, and as a side effect we get improvements on Blender itself! :)

  2. zikzak Says:

    That sounds very good !

  3. kakapo Says:

    isn’t it important to avoid too fast cuts for 3d? would the movie be recut then? wouldn’t that also require changes to the sound track?

  4. Ton Says:

    It’s not about fast cuts, but about not moving your focus points around too fast. It takes about half a second to adjust from a close to a distant focus.

  5. Limvot Says:

    I’m really excited about this, it would be great to implement some sort of official feature or script to do this. Have you considered adding the ability to render with multiple cameras in one scene? It seems to me that that would make stereoscopic renderings much easier while still retaining the flexibility of a do-it-yourself approach and would have a multitude of applications beyond stereoscopic rendering.

    Thanks for all you guys do!

  6. D Says:

    Man, this could be great! :D Do your best, Ton and team!

  7. mza Says:

    For some reason the answer of this thread aren’t displayed :(

  8. Simone Says:

    Blender will be unbeatable!!! Next step take over the world!!!!

  9. panji_alam Says:

    Then, it will not surprise when some company will use Sintel to demo their 3D TV/monitor in near future.

  10. revolt_randy Says:

    I think it’s a great idea!! I am curious as I have been reading up on steroscopic techniques. Would this be done in the anaglyph style (red/cyan colors) or the newer polarized techniques used in modern movies?

  11. young_voter Says:

    Maybe we should also have Sintel The Redux Edition, rerendering with new lighting and textures.

  12. W Says:

    An excellent thought! With stereo being all the new rage, an open 3D movie would be huge, far more than BBB! Just imagine going to an electronics store and seing ten different 3D screens standing in an aisle, all running Sintel.

  13. dusty Says:

    I think I may have just wet myself at the potential of this!!!

  14. tyrant monkey Says:

    This sounds very cool, I hope some sponsors step up to the plate. I am curious would some of the effects have to be redone. Perharps I don’t look carefully enough but when Scales breathed fire in the cave some of her flames looked very flat and not really volumetric. This wouldn’t really work for 3d or is there a way around this.

  15. Shane S. Says:

    What formats would the ‘stereo 3d’ be released in?
    Would it only work on 3D capable screens, or would there be a red/cyan glasses version? (even though you lose color quality with red/cyan glasses, it would still be nice)

    Also, small typo:
    “stereographer assisted by experiended Blender artists.”
    should be experienced ;)

  16. Dan Says:

    That’s simply great! I’m sure that your’re absolutely right when you consider Sintel 3d 4k as an worldwide test and evaluation standard.

    I wonder that this is doable with your budget, but I’m very glad to see now that stereoscopic Sintel will be realised.

    Have luck!

  17. David Jordan Says:

    Why is it being rendered at 3840 (with horizontal height of 1634 I presume)? That seems significantly smaller than the 4k DCP standard, since it leaves extra pixels unused both horizontally and vertically as opposed to the scope or flat standards. 3840 is exactly double 1920, but wouldn’t proper scaling from 4096 work just fine too, since you have all of that resolution to scale from anyway?

    @Shane: It would make sense to me that they just render it normally with two cameras and tint or polarize the images later. That way they can provide either as needed.

  18. 3dementia Says:

    This is a wonderful move. I am very interested in what technology you will be using. (btw: experienced- typo)

  19. Dan Says:

    I can submit comments and on start page there’s written about 16 comments or so, but I cannot see one of them!

    WHERE ARE THOSE COMMENTS GONE?!

  20. Dan Says:

    when i open http://www.sintel.org/production/opportunity-stereoscopic-sintel/ then I cannot see any comment :-(

    Only when I open pages like http://www.sintel.org/production/opportunity-stereoscopic-sintel/comment-page-2/#comment-22632 or http://www.sintel.org/production/opportunity-stereoscopic-sintel/comment-page-1/#comment-22627; Only then I can see the comments

    ?!? What’s wrong ?!?

  21. LOGAN Says:

    Having an Stereographic open movie would be great, hardware and software vendors can use it to show off their tech, great for Blu-Ray 3D and various other things. This will also be great to have Blender support stereographic rendering. Who knows, that next project you dream about… integrating CGI into a stereographic life action movie would be an option.

    This is a great opportunity on many levels.

  22. dusty Says:

    This would be the most amazing thing to come out of Blender yet if you pulled this off!!!

  23. Bao2 Says:

    What about a new camera type in Blender that renders 3D. It can have a target empty that is where the two cameras are focusing. In the camera parameters we can enter the distance between the two cameras (around 7 centimeters to mimic our vision, or we can change this value to make things look like miniature or so).

    This camera would render frames in side by side with all the options you can see in youtube 3D videos (left image is left eye, left image is right eye,… and so)

  24. CoyHot Says:

    I wrote more than 20 pages for “Blender Art Mag” issue 28 on Stereoscpic rendering using Blender. I talked about stereoscopic theory in general and how to create it with Blender 2.5. I don’t know if you already read it, but it may help .. ;o)

    I recently make 2 stereoscopic jingles for the “Canal+ Group” only using Blender (HD and 3D). After that, i wrote this article to help the community to produce 3D content using Blender. Those jingles was created for the last Soccer World Cup and have been broadcasted all other the world. ;o) Thank you Blender !

  25. PolygoneUK Says:

    With regards to which ‘format’ it should be produced in, I’d prefer it if the Blender Foundation rendered each eye (Left and Right) at full 4K resolution rather than creating a pre-mixed anayglyph, or a half-resolution side-by-side/over-under image.

    I’d also like to see the result devoid of any “3D floating windows” used to mask the parallax difference. Align the convergence points and crop accordingly to retain the 4K frame.

    I would also prefer parallel stereoscopic cameras rather than convergent ones (toeing in), as convergent cameras usually introduce keystone distortion at the frame edges.

    If they create the left and right eyes separately they can then let the end user choose how they wish to use the eyes: Be it anaglyph, Colorcode(©), twin-eye polarised cinema playback aka RealD etc…

  26. JaydenB Says:

    If the 3d format is created, it would be made by rendering the left and the right eyeimage separately, but there would be a pre-mixed version as well, for whatever systems Ton chooses.

  27. jorge moonito Says:

    beotiful work congratulations i love de art direction

  28. Elcrapocrew Says:

    I think I remember this being brought up before when the durian project first started getting underway, but what about setting up some kind of distributed rendering service. Something like BOINC could work nicely.

    If I remember correctly one of the reasons this was not done initially was the in house render farm that was being built. However, you are now talking about rendering the movie twice @ 4k res. That is going to seriously up the total render time!

    A distributed render system could potentially tap into MILLIONS of computers world wide. I know there are technological hurdles that would need to be overcome, but there were problems to solve in the making of Sintel too and a small team of dedicated blender heroes showed it could be done.

    It seems to me to be an idea with merit that deserves some serious thought.

  29. ChrisV Says:

    oh in 3D?! woah..that’s cool!
    Cheers for Ton & the Team :)

  30. ChrisV Says:

    wow in 3D?That’s awesome!
    cheers from Indonesia!

  31. ejnersan Says:

    I’m admittedly not a big fan of S3D, but I am glad to see that the Institute will use an experienced stereographer, and not just render out a parallel/converged/off-axis 2. camera. Really makes or breaks the experience.

    Really happy to see that some work will go into the camera! Exciting times :)

  32. Neoranga Says:

    Can’t wait to see it on youtube => “sintel yt3d enabled true”, cross view mode
    XD

  33. belich Says:

    You people never get tired of work, dont you?

    Lets see how it will look, ill have my red-cyan glasses readdy =^.^=

  34. Richard Says:

    I know I for one, would love to see Sintel in 3D. Hopefully someone will come to your assistance.

  35. Wolfgang 'datenwolf' Draxinger Says:

    Some of you may have read it: I’m currently re-rendering ED in stereoscopic 3D. It may very well by, that the workflow I created for this may influence the Sintel 3D version. If you wonder how Elephants Dream looks in 3D, take a look here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8wNk6vVjK4
    (I strongly suggest to use the Dubois method if watching with Red-/Cyan glasses)

  36. D Says:

    That 3D-ED sneak peak would look so nice on an IMAX sized screen than on my little netbook. :P
    How about a greater camera separation for mini-sized web versions?

  37. Dan Says:

    Ah! I can see the comments again!
    what went wrong?

  38. Donna Says:

    This animation is horrible and ugly. It is not beautiful. It is disgusting. You could do so much with technology and yet you waste your time with ugliness.

  39. Josh Says:

    Love it! I had this idea earlier for the team but was put aside due to re-rendering issues :( Now they have sponsors I guess its a Green Light :)

    I would help but currently I got BBB and Elephants Dream being re-done in Anaglyph and polarized (Same thing really! Only needs one re-render and the rest is done in the compositor :) ) I will have to talk to ton about what he thinks!!

    JD

  40. Joey Says:

    This is pretty cool

  41. Josh Says:

    @Donna

    No its not the movie is GREAT

  42. noeol Says:

    For those who wants to try an Off-Axis Stereo Camera, here is a simple Python script for Blender 2.54 beta:

    http://noeol.de/s3d/BStereoOffAxisCamera_0_5_5.py

    And here is the video tutorial for this script:

    http://vimeo.com/15671492

    Info to Off-Axis (parallel camera rig): instead to setup a ‘toe-in’ camera rig (which always produces vertical parallax) it’s possible to shift the virtual ‘back pane’ of the camera in Blender via the ShiftX value. The script calculates this shifting in pixel, depending on the camera separation; angle and distance to the zero parallax. The most professional stereo-3d movies these days, are using this technology instead of ‘toeing-in’ cameras.

  43. Wolfgang 'datenwolf' Draxinger Says:

    @noeol: Funny fact, James Camera fusion camera system uses toe-in optics but uses postprocessing to backdistort the picture into one like it was shot with a off axis + lens shift.

  44. JaydenB Says:

    @noeol: I’ve been using your scripts for a while, and they are very useful, very high quality, good results. Only thing is, is it possible to keyframe where the plane is, would I have to keyframe the value and then would the plane animate or not? (I said plane mainly because I forgot what it was called, was it called the convergence point or something along those lines?)

  45. Josh Says:

    @JaydenB

    I believe it is called the ‘Zero Parallax’. And yes I have been using his scripts for a while but have also edited them for my own use. For example I have directly inserted his code into the blender camera panel using blenders python API so that every time I open blender it is there and I don’t have to run it again. Secondly I have set it up so as it is a new type of camera and not 2 cameras parented and shifted around another one. For example if you select the existing camera and tick the ‘Stereoscopic Camera’ box it then turns it into a stereoscope camera but it is still ONE object in the screen. Thirdly I have added a few new options to the node editor: (1). I added a new ‘Input’ node that takes an input from a CAMERA. When rendered if it has two camera inputs the renderer automatically renders from both cameras and composites it. (2). I added a ‘Stereoscope’ node to the ‘Filters’ menu that has two inputs and one output which basically takes in the two cameras/images etc. and outputs them as 1 of 2 different options. There is a drop-down box in that node that allows for a) Anaglyph and b) Side-by-Side output. Last but not least (3). Instead of having to key-frame the ‘Zero Parallax’ option of the script I made it so that each frame it checks the location of the plane and automatically updates the Parallax for you.

    Hope that answers…. well a lot of your questions :)

    JD

  46. Jack Harris Says:

    Ton, I’m not sure I understand what you mean when you write, “It’s currently even open to deliver this in stereo-4k!”. Do you mean, “the options under consideration could include effort to deliver this movie in stereo-4k”? Or do you mean something else? I’m confused.

  47. JaydenB Says:

    @Josh: wow, ok, that is exactly what I wanted to do.

  48. JaydenB Says:

    Sorry for the double post guys

    @Josh: all of those things you have set up, is basically what I was going to do, you have created a node int eh exact way I was imagining it, you have basically set everything up the exact same way i would have, its crazy :)

  49. Josh Says:

    @JaydenB
    If you want I can send you the scripts I use/used?

  50. JaydenB Says:

    @ Josh: That would be nice.

  51. ITrAB Says:

    Hi!
    I just wanted to say that I saw “defocus” filter in some CG 3D movies, and that isn’t good when there’s up to you (your eyes) to focus on objects… It’s like applying motion blur on 60fps video… So if you guys don’t know it, I’m just saying ;)
    I’m waiting for anaglyph version of sintel! (and my DVD with 5h of tutorials!) :D

  52. JaydenB Says:

    @ITrAB: i am sure the stereo profesionals that they hire will now more then that about it, even I do, having researched into a bit myself. some times, they still use the defocus/depth of field effect very slightly, just to help you focus on what they want you to focus on, but not too much. :) Stereo is cool!

  53. joeri Says:

    @Jack Harris

    I think Ton means the movie is good enough ( textures etc ) to render in 4k… It is going to be renderd in 4k.
    So the stereo sponsor could get a stereo 4k version, the only extra costs would be the render time.

  54. amandamagick Says:

    This a wonderful film. I commend you for your hard work. I so dearly want to see more of the story. I have a tear in my eye.

  55. namekuseijin Says:

    @Donna, is that you, banned blenderartists user “Vali”? I’m sure you are, with your love for “nature beauty”.

    well, shit happens like here and that is part of nature too.

  56. Josh Says:

    @namekuseijin

    Watch your language :-)

    @JaydenB

    KK. Let me get the rest of my work out of the way and I’ll turn it into an installer :-)

  57. Valentin Says:

    You know, you should propose the movie to Futuroscop, in France.
    You should also propose all open movie blender projects:
    Elephantdream, Yofrankie, BigBuckBunny and Sintel.

  58. Benoît Says:

    That might actually be a great idea!
    Futuroscope is kind of a tech/cinema theme park, and their
    ‘rides’ consist of short films displayed using new technology like Hi-Res, super large screen/dome, 3D, movement simulator…
    This might be perfect, and it might get Blender some funding in one way or another!

  59. JaydenB Says:

    @Benoit: That is only if they sponsor it, if so one gets them interested.

  60. Lzymxn Says:

    one thing that has always bothered me, and avatar while being the best example of 3d done right, is also the best example of a big shortcoming of 3d….depth of field, in regular filming it can emphasize certain moments, highlight certains aspects of a scene, but in 3d it takes you away from the environment, in big open scenes especially, there is a company that has developed a lens that can actually zoom and focus without depth of field blurring, it was said that it may be used in a future 3d film, i forget the director but he was quoted as saying if they can really capture a scene and create a feeling of actually being there he would consider 3d in future films, he is supposed to be in talks with the company for an upcoming movie

  61. satellites Says:

    Hi!
    I just wanted to say that I saw “defocus” filter in some CG 3D movies, and that isn’t good when there’s up to you (your eyes) to focus on objects… It’s like applying motion blur on 60fps video… So if you guys don’t know it, I’m just saying ;)
    I’m waiting for anaglyph version of sintel! (and my DVD with 5h of tutorials!) :D

  62. JaydenB Says:

    OK. Everyone has read the comments, and it gets annoying reading the thing about the defocus node. Let me say one thing: GET OVER IT. Not to be mean or anything, but if you read the post Ton said he would hire professionals who know what they are doing, they would know about that specific thing, adn lots of others that you wouldn’t think about them (some I know :D ). So please stop saying things like this because the people Ton hire would know all of his stuff.

  63. Robert Kosten Says:

    I’d say making a 3D 4k version available might be a smart move, it’s bound to create a new wave of interest for a comparatively low price… And it would be a good time to fix small errors, like the floating collar behind the Proog lookalike/cameo in the chase scene (4:21), as well :-P

  64. Phollox Says:

    I watched the movie yesterday. I liked the storyline. However, there are a few things that I didn’t liked that much.

    When I read about Sintel, and that it will feature action scenes, with a female character, I though: “Wow, hair animation”. The fight at the beginning, and the others during the movie, are well made. The only detail is the lack of a natural hair movement in the hair of Sintel. It is very short, compared with the previous versions of the making off. But still, it seems that se have some kind of gel in her hair, that avoids it to move so much.

    In the dragon’s cave, her skin looks like glowing, with a different color that the light projected by the gems. It doesn’t looks natural. And the skin of the big dragon looks a bit shiny, almost metallic.

    But probably, the thing that looks worse is the fire. In the final scene, it is not very noticeable. But the fire looks horrible in the tent of the old guy. The pot in the fire that we can see in the background: there aren’t any flames. It looks like a bunsen burner, with no ramdom movement, straigh up.

    I like the movie, I think that the achievements of the blender project are amazing. I am only pointing things that I think could be improved. Specially if the movie will be rendered for big screens, in stereo 3D…

    Congratulations,

  65. Dan Says:

    Hey Ton and Team,
    did you find a sponsor? :-)
    Or will it not be rendered stereoscopic? :-(

  66. neo Says:

    سلام
    من مهدی هستم و از ایران
    انیمیشن بسیار زیبا بود.داستان هم احساسی و معنا دار بود
    امیدوارم در کارتون موفق باشین

  67. neo Says:

    Hi
    I am the Mahdi and Iran
    Animation was very beautiful. The story also was a significant emotional and
    To be part of hope in a successful cartoon

  68. Ange Gabriel Says:

    Bien, je vais écrire en français, et j’espère que vous traduirez cela comme il se doit !! ^^

    Tout d’abord, je dois avouer que votre production est géniale !
    Grand merci !!! :)

    Par contre, votre FIN est merdique ! :(
    Je suis très très en colère, j’aime les fins heureuses,
    et je ne comprends pas du tout, mais alors pas du tout pourquoi
    vous avez décidé de faire cette fin à la con…

    Alors je fais appel à TOUTE l’équipe !!!
    Pourriez-vous s’il vous plait, refaire la fin mais de façon
    à ce que cette fin soit HEUREUSE ? (Happy End ^^)

    Sintel retrouvre son p’tit dragon (qui est donc devenu adulte)
    mais au lieu de le tuer voit tout de suite la marque de sa blessure
    sur son aile qu’elle avait soigné…

    Ou alors, elle possède un grand pouvoir de guérisseuse en ELLE
    et soigne son Dragon !

    De plus, faut surtout pas oublier le bébé dragon à la fin…

    Elle va donc vivre avec les deux, et voilà : HAPPY END !

    SVP !!! Faite une fin alternative, mais en HAPPY END ! ^^

    Et la, je vous supporterez, j’achèterai cette version !!! :)

    D’avance merci.

  69. alanfish Says:

    ^_^ …How is the progress of the “stereoscopic version” Sintle.
    I am an experienced stereographer. Sintle is a really good short film. It is amazing. I am really interested to watch the stereoscopic version.

    Alan Lam

  70. creek23 Says:

    any update on this? :)

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